.WAFL (l22@?8Il%G!׻^/ntry(3@-j搕 Ej8Il%G!׻^/1}url 8http://www.primenet.com/~exclmid/Moore%20interview.htmlmime text/htmlhntt"18963f-30d8-36a5c4e9"hvrsdata The Excluded Middle--Interview With Bill Moore



copyright 1993 by Gregory Bishop

I have known Bill Moore since 1988. In that time I have seen him go from prominence as the "discoverer" (along with Jamie Shandera) of the MJ12 documents to emerging as an even more controversial figure in the UFO community. This was the result of a speech he made at the MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) convention in Las Vegas in 1989 wherein he intimated that most of what all the other researchers had been told by their government intelligence contacts was pure fabrication. The publisher of a well-known magazine left the room in tears, and I saw Bill English (one of the "aliens-are-eating-us-while-they-take-over-the-world" UFO personalities) run past me hollering "I'm going to get a fire hose!" The conference host came to the podium more than a few times to call for order. This initiation into the primate pecking-order of UFOlogy convinced me beyond a doubt that many members of MUFON were just like anyone else with a mouth full of words and an empty mind -- push the right buttons and they explode. What was it that caused so much emotion? I finally cornered Bill at his office in late January to find out in detail what "made him do it" and who really pulls the levers.

At no time since I have known him has Moore been rude, evasive, or secretive (at least in the "I know something you don't" mold.) Only the most paranoid (or gullible?) person would suspect much ulterior motive in his coversation. To me he has been at all times intelligent and compassionate.


Q: This has been gone over many times, but what is it that pissed off so many people in Las Vegas at MUFON 1989?

MOORE: I think that they were outraged that someone would get up there and tell them that they'd been had.

Q :You don't think that could have happened to you?

MOORE: Sure it could have. And maybe it has. That was exactly the point. If they (government agencies) could manipulate a situation like the Bennewitz affair the way they did, and plant information which was at that point the hottest thing in the UFO grapevine, which a lot of people were really interested in and remain interested in to this day...

Q: Bennewitz was the one who thought he was receiving highly secret transmissions from an air force base in New Mexico, and was scared by what he heard or thought he heard?

MOORE: Yes. That was it. The whole story of Government/ alien involvement, treaties with aliens, underground bases, a plot to take over the planet, implants, two different races of aliens, one hostile and one friendly, etc. was all cooked up by the counter-intelligence people for the purpose of discrediting Bennewitz. He bought it, and a lot of other people in the UFO community bought it, and they continue to buy it today. All of that stuff was cooked up as part of the operation against Bennewitz. Bennewitz was meeting with everybody who was anybody and telling that story to anyone who would listen. John Lear, and ultimately through him to Bill Cooper, Bill English, Wendelle Stevens...they all revolved around that information. It was the kind of paranoia that they wanted to hear. And so here's John Lear, organizer and host of the conference in Vegas, one of the chief proponents of that kind of information, staking his so-called reputation on the fact that it was all true. Linda Howe has gotten in over her head over it, all those people prepared to tell their stories, and become important forces for good in the UFO research community. Then I get up and tell them, "Folks, you've been had. And here's how I know. It isn't that I've heard it, I was part of it. I was there. I watched it happen. I knew who was doing it, and I was privy to it."

Q: Were you inferring by that statement that they could have found out the same thing if they did as you did?

MOORE: No, they couldn't have. That was the point.

Q: Why not?

MOORE: Because they weren't a part of it. It was because I had allowed them to be hooked before I got up and said , "Hey folks, you've been had." I could have kept them informed all along.

Q: That would have tainted any information that you were getting, though.

MOORE: Well, of course. It would have destroyed my ability to get anything. I couldn't tell anybody. I was just as upset at what happened to Bennewitz as they were. But they couldn't begin to understand why. According to them, "I (Moore) did it to him." I didn't do it. I was only fortunate enough to be in a position where I could see it.

One thing that I find the most outrageous...actually there are two things. One is that most of the people who are into UFO research are their own worst enemies. They sabotage their own efforts before they even get under way through ignorance in how to proceed. Through a preconceived position of "well this is what I'm going to find, so if I find anything that doesn't fit, I'll ignore it." and by broadcasting far and wide exactly what they're doing, and by their blind belief that in what the Freedom Of Information Act is going to get them. What happens is when you tell somebody what you know, it immediately shows up on the (UFO rumor) grapevine. If you've told your friends, you've told everybody. If there's anything to it, people who are custodians of the information can detect where it came from immediately, and will rush to protect it.

Q: Why tell anyone?


Q: As "leaks" it makes them feel important?

MOORE: To some extent.

Q: They've told you this, or you're guessing?

MOORE: I'm guessing. I think there's an organized plan to let some of this stuff out too. I just think honestly a lot of them don't know what to do with it.

Q: Well, if they have access to the information, obviously they are supposed to be doing something with it.

MOORE: The other thing that bothers me is that the greater portion of the UFO community exists to feed off itself. In other words, they don't want to find an answer--they want to find more questions.

Q: Not to change the subject too quickly, but about a year ago I had talked to you and you said you had discovered what you thought was the answer to the men in black enigma, and you had published it in your magazine. Would you elaborate?

MOORE: It basically stems from a covert group within the military community who are very good at playing games. And one of the games that they devised was this men in black thing in order to obtain information and leave behind a legacy of mystery which would be good cover for them. There is a group, I've worked with some of them. They recruit a lot of people from the prisons and make deals with them that if they will serve so many years, they'll be given a clean bill of health and a new identity. And somewhere way back when, they cooked up this men in black thing as a device for enabling them to get information out of people, particularly physical evidence without having to give them a government receipt for it. They were involved with Bennewitz.

What they do is plan and base it on things that have worked in the past. If you are a professional cat burglar, with 30 years of experience, and the government says, "We need cat burglars. We have a use for such people--safe crackers, con artists, what have you. We'll make a deal with you. You come work for us, and we'll get you out of the slammer. You're our slave for seven years. You do your job well, and the time is up, we'll give you a new identity and a certain amount of money, and goodbye. If you fuck up, you go back to jail and the records show you were transferred briefly from one prison to another, it didn't work out, and you were sent back. You want to come work for us, or stay in jail? Take your pick." What do you do?...You come work for us. There's these people in Michigan. They've got some film we're interested in. Go get it. You're not to leave any indication that it was the government that got it. You're not to leave any traces as to who you are. If they won't give it to you outright, find some other way to get it, but get it." What do you do? You sit and plan with other people how you're going to do this. What they came up with was this whole men in black thing.

Q: What about people who are visited before they even tell anyone about it?

MOORE: Perhaps somebody knew what they had done, even though they hadn't told anyone. It may be that the image they got wasn't a UFO at all, but an experimental craft of some kind. Somebody saw them land. Who knows how the information ultimately gets to its destination? Once they have it, they decide, "What's the best response?" They tried to use me one time to get footage out of somebody who had it and wouldn't give it up. I couldn't do it. They wouldn't give it to me either (as a UFO investigator.) They ultimately got that film. I don't know how they got it, but I know they did. The assumption on the part of a lot of people is that, "If Bill Moore was knowingly involved in that kind of activity, automatically Bill Moore has to be the bad guy." I wouldn't do things like that. My point is if I hadn't cooperated, if I hadn't gotten to know how these things work, nobody would know about it to this day. You don't learn how to swim unless you get into the water. You can read all the books you want, you can listen to all the people you want, but until you get into the water, you don't learn how. It's the same way in projects like these. Until you get involved with them, you don't know what happens. When you do get involved, there are rules. And they're not your rules. You either play by them, or they very quickly find somebody else who will. Then they dump your ass out with a load of shit, and if you go public with the load of shit, you look like an idiot. This is what Linda Howe did. They do a complete psychological profile. They know exactly what they're dealing with, they know exactly what to feed him that he will believe, and they know exactly how to do it, and they do it.

Q: You do realize that they could and might very well be doing this to you.

MOORE: Sure. I've always known that.

Q: But is it interesting and entertaining enough to continue to play?

MOORE: First of all, there is something to the subject that is so important that they're devoting all this time and effort to it. They wouldn't devote it to stories about Hitler being alive in Antarctica. It says there's something there: What?

Q: That's what I was about to ask.

MOORE: I don't know. Whatever the secret is, it's such a high magnitude of importance and would have such an impact on the mundane day-to-day circumstances of our society that anyone who is gets close enough to see what it is says, "Oh my God. We can never tell anyone this. Because if we do, it will bring down the whole fabric of our society." That to me automatically suggests certain things.

Q: Such as...?

MOORE: Most of them either seem to have economic or religious implications.

Q: And the only conclusion you draw from that is extraterrestrial contact of some sort?

MOORE: No. Either there are aliens and they are coming here--there is a limited interaction with this race, and whatever lies behind that is of such earth-shattering proportions that if the truth came out about it it would shatter Christianity to its very foundations--maybe. Or somebody (plural) in a very highly placed position with a lot of assets at their disposal is desperately manipulating events to try and make it appear that way. I tend to favor the former more than the latter.